Honest Prospective Jurors Turned Away – Charles Manson Interview with the Independent, 8/19/1970
“It seems they’re turning all the honest people away and leaving the dishonest ones.” That, in
one sentence, is what hippie leader Charles Manson thinks as he watches the slow process
of selecting a jury which will hear the charges of murder against him and three of his “family.”
In an exclusive interview in the high-security section of the downtown jail, Manson outlined
what he thinks as he sits quietly, silently in the courtroom and in chambers listening to the jury
selection questioning. “You know,” he says candidly, “I sit in there and listen to their questions
especially about the publicity and whether they’ve made up their minds about me. Most of
them say ‘no, no, I haven’t read anything — no, no, I haven’t made up my mind’ and they
let them stay in the jury. A couple have said ‘yah, I read it all and think he’s guilty’ and they
threw them out. They’re turning all the honest people away and leaving the dishonest ones
— I’d rather have the honest ones, even though they said they were influenced by the publicity.”
People, the long-haired cult leader contends, have been “mesmerized” by the media and
his case has been hurt by the “prosecution trying the case in the press.” “He (Prosecutor
Aaron Stovitz) even cops out in court saying that he had laid out his case — they even have
the tape recording — here’s proof,” Manson says, referring to an interview printed in an
underground paper. “Yet the press doesn’t do anything about that. They all look like
intelligent people sitting out there taking notes, but they must be stupid. How could
they be so blind. What kind of system is this?” IF someone came into the courtroom
and blew my brains out it wouldn’t make any difference.
All they’d lose is one small guy — not losing much. But what the people are doing is destroying
themselves.” Why he decided to behave in court and not turn his back to the judge nor simulate
being crucified is vague:”I never make a decision. It’s like going to a door, looking at the doorknob
and opening the door. It’s just there.” The judge hasn’t influenced him to behave, nor has Jerry
Rubin, the Yippie leader known to have visited him in jail, he says. “No one can talk me into
anything. I’m at the top of my thoughts. “I don’t ask other men for their opinion or advice or
consider it. Because I’m a man I don’t need to lean on anyone. I stand for myself and am myself.
I’m not unsure of myself. I’m positive.” Why he decided to turn his back to the court he answers
very slowly and deliberately: “If you stand for it (the system) you are a part of it. “I’ve looked at
the judge and looked at him, but he won’t look at me, so I don’t think of him anymore. “I see a
black robe; the same one Pilate wore. It’s got all the blood on it from 1900 years of Christian rule.
“If I were my own attorney I could explain. You’ve heard of the Battle of Armageddon (the Bible’s
prophecy of the last, decisive battle between good and evil before the Day of Judgment). I see it
coming, and all I want to do is get out of the way, but they’re trying to stick an antichrist label on me.
“I’ve watched 40 people drop acid (LSD) at the same time. I’ve seen them jump into fire and try to
gouge their eyes out and stick knives in each other. I’ve seen them take it and go crazy. “But, I see
people on the streets acting the same way. “They say I’ve strung people out on dope. I say to the
kids ‘Why take dope just leave home — you don’t need dope.'”
The 14-year-old daughter of a Hollywood and Broadway actress, Manson says, he “got off dope”
until the girl’s mother returned home from New York. “I got her off speed… that’s bad. She was
14 and had tracks up her arms like you’d never believe. But her parents came back and she went
back on it. Now she’s on heroin. “I really love kids — I love everybody. I even love that stupid-ass
judge, if you can believe that. “I could have severed my case from the rest of these kids — but I
didn’t. All I can see is love in them.” And “kids” share his love, Manson claims. “The kids are sure
I’m not guilty that a bunch of them are starting up a sort of fan club to march on the trial. I tried to
tell them not to be silly, but they’re going to stand on the sidewalk and yell for the judge to let me
go. I’m sure,” he says with a laugh, “that’s going to convince him to let me go.” But the judge and
the system, the clan chieftain says, are really in trouble as far as he’s concerned: “If they convict
me, they’re only giving the kids a ’cause’ — a martyr to follow who’s against the establishment. “If
they let me go, I’m still in big trouble because I could turn into a monster. They’ve given me the
weapon of fear. Everyone’s afraid of me.” If he were turned loose, he says wistfully, “I’d go to the
desert and no one would ever see me again.” “Regardless of what they do in court I’ve been tried
already and found guilty. I’m their bastard son. My house is the penitentiary. What are they going
to do — send me back home? “You know,” he laughs, “you probably haven’t heard about this, but
a while back there was a prison (jail) break. The window had been left open, the bars had been
sawed through — in the day room I use. I could have escaped almost. It wasn’t a sure thing.
But it’s just a matter of time.”The best thing for them to do is shoot me now.”
Years ago when I was pen pals with Charles Manson in the early 2010’s a theme of our conversations was
the societal suicide and the falling away of American society from causes of liberation, like worker organizing
and the mass strikes of yesteryear. As an anti-fascist I find his racism noxious but find some wisdom in those
letters and he should be recognized as an influence in the founding of ProvokeRevolt.com
